MyDD :: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome

If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome

by esconded, Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:41:30 PM EST

So I've been called a concern troll.

I've been a regular reader of MyDD for nearly six years, since just before the 2002 midterm elections. Jerome had a contest
on how well the Republicans would do in the 2002 midterms. He was dead on then, and he's right about what's happeing this year. And I respect his analysis a lot. And he's right about the energy issue--how did the Democrats get blindsided?

Even though I was a Hillary supporter in the primaries, I really want Obama to win. It's really very important to have a Democrat in the White House. And for a lot reasons--judicial appointments, overturning Bush's outrageous executive orders, and
restoring the rule of law, as well as getting a health care bill passed.

Unlike the many Obots around here and elsewhere, I do follow what the other side is thinking and saying from time to time.
The only reason I watch O'Reilly is because it's on at the gym where go after work. So for 20 minutes four times a week, I get to see what his gang is up to. And I occasionally visit Race 4 2008 and read Jay Cost on RCP.

And I do follow the polls. Just one glance at 538, and you will see that Obama has been trending downward for at least a month on the supertracker. And recent Senate polls should give pregressives some pause for concern--only Virginia and New Mexico are locks right now. And a smattering of House polls that have come out (albeit internal polls mostly) haven't been exactly the greatest news for Democrats either.

The terrian has changed, as the rise in gas prices (until they drop another buck), has made energy (never a Democratic strength) a prime issue. It undercuts our advantage on the economy. Look at what happened in California--it led to the demise of Gray Davis (with an assist from Karl Rove). The public will never really accept conservation.

Jerome is right--short term, we may have to accept more drilling, but include support for all the alternatives. And I have one other suggestion for supporters of solar and wind power--you have to sell these to the public. They have an elitist image. And we need better leadership in Congress on this. Pelosi is stuck in some kind of time warp. This isn't 2006 anymore.

We could lose this election. Obama has never really opened up any kind of a margin on McCain. But adding Hillary Clinton wouldn't energize Republicans, she would energize Democrats. And that's what will win this election.

Tags: Obama, polls, Jerome Armstrong, Hillary Clinton (all tags)

Permalink :: 44 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (2.00 / 4)

Uh, who are you?

Here's a tip - if you want to talk about a topic, TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC. Don't talk about yourself talking about the topic.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:47:58 PM EST

yawn (2.00 / 2)

another "Obama won't win without Clinton" diary

Obama beat the best political machine in the primary and he will beat the guy who's best press of the week was standing in front a supermarket cheese isle.

by hocuspocus on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:57:33 PM EST

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (2.00 / 2)

Um, okay... Jerome's posts suck and aren't worth reading. Yours as well? Fine by me.

by username on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:57:51 PM EST

And so we come back to Hillary. (2.00 / 1)

"I'm not a concern troll, but... yadda yadda yadda, we are so doomed... yadda yadda yadda... we're gonna lose if Hillary isn't on the ticket."

How did we all know that was coming just from the title?

Real concern is one thing. Concern as an excuse for saying, "Your candidate still sucks and only my candidate can save you," is another.

Just move on.

You want something to really worry about? Why not worry about whether John McCain drops dead from old age before the election? And would it be good or bad for the Republicans?

by Dumbo on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:01:14 PM EST

Re: And so we come back to Hillary. (2.00 / 1)

A better question would be- would anyone notice?

by skohayes on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (2.00 / 1)

I don't find any problem with diarist discussing his or her life experience as an addition to the political topics. It sure as heck beats discussing other specific former diarists in a fashion which is not keyboard to keyboard on this site...

I agree esconded in respect to your stance on Jerome and also the elitist image....

by Liberty on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:01:29 PM EST

I'm not sure whether you should a comment (none / 0)

by somebody who posted a total of 1 diary and 4 comments on this blog so seriously. Anyway the username who called you a concern troll had chosen a username to mock one of the famous bloggers of the primary wars. I'll not take his/her comments that seriously (yet)...

by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:03:27 PM EST

You need to join a different gym. (none / 0)

Seriously. I got my gym to turn off FOX News by complaining about it, and telling them it was a propaganda network that insults half the country.

Tell your gym to switch channels or lose a customer.

Oh and, thanks for your concern. Obama should appoint Clark, someone with real military leadership creds, not just a lot of years wasting away at the Hanoi Hilton.

by rhetoricus on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:06:21 PM EST

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (2.00 / 3)

Wind power has an "elitist" image? You've obviously never been to west Texas, or the Oklahoma panhandle or western Kansas (not exactly hotbeds of elitists), which have wind farms all over the place and new ones going up every day.
A new biodiesel plant was just built in the OK panhandle, that uses pork fat from a local plant to make biofuel.
Pelosi and the House today were shot down by Republicans for trying to get Bush to open up the Strategic Petroleum reserves, which dropped gas prices 9% in 2001 (the last time we opened up the SPOR) and even more than that in the 1990's.
Obama spoke in front of a crowd of 200,000 people today in Berlin, and McCain went to Schmidtt's House of Sausage and Fudge (seriously, he did) with Lindsey Graham to talk about the economy.
And you're worried about losing the election because of useless daily tracking polls?

by skohayes on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:06:29 PM EST

T. Boone Pickens (none / 0)

I wonder if the diarist has seen all those ads by T. Boone Pickens? That TX oil man is going all out in promoting wind power.

He is specifically saying that we can't drill our way out of this situation. http://www.pickensplan.com/

BTW, anyone who is concerned about Obama because they watched Fox News has poor judgment. Yes, it's good to know what they're saying. But you certainly can't take it as an accurate portrait of what's going on.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You know... (2.00 / 2)

Maybe he is.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:21:31 PM EST

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't... (none / 0)

in any case we should be prepared to support his pick. I would be very happy if he picks her but I think it's purely his choice.

by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't... (2.00 / 2)

That's absolutely not what I was referring to.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh dang, you took me for a ride there!! :) (none / 0)

Hah..I respect our BlogFather and his analysis..

by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (none / 0)

Having been here for six years..
you surely know how with a click a quick review of your comments...
concerning your Bullshit on Edwards this week..said it all.
You are not even at the level of a concern troll..
You are simply a troll..

tap yer two toes..
yer blues...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAvlYLCYO DU&feature=related

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"

by nogo postal on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34:48 PM EST

Jerome is a concern troll (none / 0)

there's a difference between someone who is worried and concern troll. A concern troll is hopeless.

Personally, I think Obama is going to lose simply because he's black and whether he puts Hillary on the ticket won't matter. It's not going to get my relatives, all Democrats, to vote for him, because they won't vote for him because he's a Muslim. They never supported Clinton, they opposed the Muslim. There is more of that out there than we'd like to admit.

Obama has to win on his own and he could, but we have to first work together to combat the lies and prejudices that should have no bearing in this race, but could very well decide it. That's why I had a problem with Hillary's "As far as I know" comment. She had every right to question his ability to lead or his policies or his stances on issues, even his trustworthiness, Lord knows everyone has questioned hers, and I, for one, defended that right to the point of being banned over at kos and other anti-Hillary blogs, but to not immediately fight against an outright lie was very disingenuous.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:37:03 PM EST

oh gosh not this again....that comment had been (2.00 / 1)

discussed to death in this blog and Obama primary supporters themselves pointed out that when put that in context of the total interview, she's not questioning anything. It had been unfortunately played out by media in a rather obtuse mannder. Check previous diaries during the primary war...

Good luck..

by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, she's not questioning it (none / 0)

i think she was trying to be funny and lighten the mood, but she left open the possibility to the mass ignorance that he could be a Muslim. I think it was an unfortunate mistake on her part, I don't think she thought so many people would be THAT stupid, but it still aggravated me.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I also thought similarly and as a HRC supporter (2.00 / 1)

I was very disappointed before Obama supporters here pointed out the context of the total dialogue with Steve Kroft. I would suggest you see the total interview or find the script. It is in MyDD somewhere or in the web..

by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:52:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, she's not questioning it (2.00 / 2)

As an Obama supporter, I initially thought it was an underhanded attempt to call into question his religion. But after seeing the context of the entire interview and the repeated questioning by the interviewer, I changed my mind. I now think it was more a matter of frustration at being asked the question repeatedly. I think it is basically on par with Obama's "likable enough" comment...not really a big deal either way.

by ProgressiveDL on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Honestly (none / 0)

I wasn't crazy about his likable enough comment either.

But the difference there is that one can make an argument that Hillary is not likable. Whether or not that's true is a matter of personal interpretation.

There is no truth or no valid argument to say Obama is a Muslim.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:56:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Honestly (2.00 / 1)

But Hillary's answer is truthful. As far as she knows, Obama is not a Muslim. Does she KNOW that he doesn't secretly go to a mosque in his basement? Well, probably. But she doesn't KNOW it.

The point is, her response was an exasperated way of saying "Stop asking me the same question over and over!" just as his was an exasperated way of saying "this question is ridiculous."

by ProgressiveDL on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:47:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Honestly (none / 0)

They've been to enough prayer breakfasts that she ought to know. You're talking about the kind of doubt that's only theoretical - if that's the standard then "Hillary Clinton is not a communist as far as I know" is perfectly acceptable.

I saw the Kroft interview in real time and it was as bad as people say it was - she could not say no and move on: she said "no, I mean, there's no reason to think he is..." and from there started hedging. So he put the question to her one more time and she couldn't help herself.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:35:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Then wny couldn't (none / 0)

she simply say "This question is ridiculous, let's move on"

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:51:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then wny couldn't (none / 0)

Then she gets hammered for being a cold bitch. She really couldn't win in that situation.

by ProgressiveDL on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 09:49:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is a concern troll (2.00 / 2)

Well, apparently you won't be much help this election. You can't even convince your own family that he isn't a Muslim. Sure hate to have you phone-banking for him.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:50:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm so freaking tired of these divisiveness (2.00 / 1)

within Democrats. We have a very good candidate for Presidency who can truly do a World of good for our country and our World for the next years to come..we need to get him to the White House this November..this stupid sidetracking conversations are wearing on me..

by louisprandtl on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm so freaking tired of these divisiveness (2.00 / 1)

AMEN!

January 20 & sricki join with The engels in love!

by January 20 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is a concern troll (none / 0)

nrafter530 phone banked for Obama during the primary ... dealt with abusive, racist remarks slung his or her way and you have the audacity to spew this crud ..

UNBELIEVABLE...

by Liberty on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:01:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is a concern troll (none / 0)

"Spew?" Really, "spew?" You call it spewing crud for pointing out that someone who can't even convince Democrats in his own family that Obama is not a Muslim must not be very convincing?

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:17:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is a concern troll (none / 0)

Yeah...spew..

by Liberty on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Which is why (none / 0)

I won't phonebank anymore. Not that it matters, I live in Europe now, but obviously I must've not been too good at it.

I'll help how I can in other ways.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You have a way (none / 0)

of convincing them that I haven't tried, I'd like to hear it. No matter what I said to them, they would just shoot back "yeah well I don't believe it. His name is Muslim.

How many minds have you changed? If none, then maybe you need to try and see how fruitless it is.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You have a way (2.00 / 1)

People who still think he is a Muslim either don't watch any media or they want him to be Muslim. In fact, they need him to be Muslim. It makes their world less complicated if they can just look at someone's name and immediately know their ethnicity (and by extension, whether they are likely to be some kind of threat).

Those kind of people must have a hell of a time with Juan Pierre and Troy O'Leary. "Wait...they are BOTH black? Really? Are you sure?? Damn. Well, I bet O'Leary still drinks."

by ProgressiveDL on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:49:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You have a way (2.00 / 1)

"How many minds have you changed?" I understand how difficult it can be to change the mind of someone with a opposing point of view. I've managed to convince my neighbor to vote for Obama. He is a middle-aged white man in MS. He is a regular church-goer and has always voted Republican in the past. He is now an evangelist for Obama. He's not the only one I've reached.

There are quite a few things that can be pointed out to weaken the Muslim meme. One obvious one is to ask someone how they got their name. The obvious answer is that their parents named them. You don't usually choose your own name, but you are free to choose your own religion and Obama chose to be a Christian.

Something else to point out is that the rumors of Obama being sworn in on a Koran are false. People have mixed him up with Rep. Keith Ellison from MN. Obama was sworn in on his own bible by Dick Cheney.

Another thing to bring up is that both of his daughters have been baptized as Christians and that his wife is also a Christian.

Ask them if they know that Muslims are required to pray five times per day while bowing to Mecca. Point out to them that Obama has never been observed doing this or any other acts required of an observant Muslim.

Point out to them that Obama has been a self-declared Christian for more than 20 years. Arm yourself with quotes about his faith from his auto-biography or quotes from his speeches.

There are plenty of arguments to use against the false belief that Obama is a Muslim.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:28:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is a concern troll (2.00 / 1)

"Personally, I think Obama is going to lose simply because he's black"

I
Even if you're an American, you don't know your fellow countrymen and women.

by Beren on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:28:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is a concern troll (1.00 / 1)

Personally, I think Obama is going to lose simply because he's black

what crap! hard to believe you'd have worked so hard in the primary if you really believed that. this strikes me as the passive-aggressive tone taken during the primary to paint anyone not on the Obama boat as a racist. Take that tone and shove it, frankly.

by swissffun on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 05:17:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's because (2.00 / 1)

I worked so hard in the primary that I do believe that. I'm so tired of hearing "I don't want a President named Obama." or "I'm sure he's friends with that guy who killed Malcolm X"

Is everyone not on Obama's boat a racist? No. but those people we can bring over. We can't do a damn thing about people like my family, and if he loses, it's gonna be because of them.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 06:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's because (none / 0)

kudos for sticking with it. nothing changes if we don't keep trying.

by swissffun on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 05:23:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are a concern troll (2.00 / 1)

And lately, so has Jerome been.

So technically you are correct.

Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics

by BishopRook on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 11:16:38 PM EST

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (2.00 / 1)

Ummm.

Yes.

Obama/Clark (still dreaming)

by spacemanspiff on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:48:56 AM EST

This is a diary? (2.00 / 1)

I apologize, but it reads like a thin skinned whine fest.

It's the fucking internet, toughen up.
If you don't like the nasty nasty names that people called you, either:

shut up
move on
change your message

Alternatively you could complain about it where it matters, where people called you those names, starting a new diary to air your hurt feelings does little to make people look kindly upon you.

by notedgeways on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:01:02 AM EST

Re: If I'm a concern troll, so is Jerome (2.00 / 1)

No comment.

by Beren on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:23:10 AM EST

With apolgies to Lloyd Bentsen (2.00 / 1)

Esconded,I've posted answers to Jerome Armstrong; I know Jerome Armstrong; Jerome Armstrong is a well respected leader in the political blogosphere; Esconded, you're no Jerome Armstrong.

"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player

by WashStateBlue on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:38:25 PM EST

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